Back in `84 on a family holiday around Europe my parents purchased what was an ex-PostNL VW Combi converted into a camper. It had done a lot of miles. We drove it right around Europe with only one breakdown in a small town in Germany that fortunately had a VW mechanic.
But possibly the most memorable time spent in the van was when it came time to sell it.
Next to where the London Eye is now was what was known as "the strip" with a lineup of campers being sold on to newly arrived tourists. I spent two weeks living in the van next to the Thames, a short walk to Waterloo Station and a lot of time just wandering the streets of London alone (as a 14yo).
dmoose 22 hours ago [-]
I picked up one as well and even after flying to pick it up and fuel for driving 700 miles back I'm in it less than $4K. My theory was fleet maintenance to some extent mitigated the 330K miles and even if it takes a crate engine to keep it running I probably still get enough value to be worth it. Turns out I got 19 mpg on the drive back and the only thing I've found wrong with it so far is dead battery in a tps. Wrap is goofy looking but at least I'm never going to lose it in a parking lot.
ryukoposting 21 hours ago [-]
When properly cared for, and owned outside of the rust belt, these vans will go a million miles. Hell, I've seen a Chevy Express van in the rust belt with over 500k (that's 800k if you're French).
They're so simplistic, and parts are so easy to find, that frame rot is really the only thing that can permanently kill one. It's really a shame that the Express is the last van of this breed that's still hanging around. The stubby nose makes spark plugs a harrowing experience, but everything else is easy. They were built to be used indefinitely.
SoftTalker 21 hours ago [-]
Wouldn't even need a crate engine if it came to needing a replacement, a good used engine for that would be easy to find.
bloomingeek 23 hours ago [-]
Really cool story! It's always been my premise that good maintenance means longevity on vehicles. I keep our vehicles with the idea of "driving the wheels off of them", but always end up giving them to my kids after wanting an upgrade vehicle with some modern tech. (One of them has almost 200K miles on it.)
As for a Honda Element, I've always wanted one, but my wife thinks they're ugly. ;)
lotsofpulp 20 hours ago [-]
> It's always been my premise that good maintenance means longevity on vehicles.
There are myriad examples of manufacturing defects and cost optimizations that lead to early failures regardless of maintenance. I would not trust a well maintained Stellantis vehicle to make it to 200k miles regardless of how well it was maintained.
linksnapzz 12 hours ago [-]
I'll bet that a Ram 2500 w/ the 392 engine could, if maintaine, (in a climate where there's no road salt...) reach 200K w/ only regular maintenance.
Not much else that they make.
hedora 11 hours ago [-]
Unless they use a completely different transmission platform than the 1500 or Jeeps, I wouldn't bet on it.
The transmission has an integrated computer that controls shifting, cooling, etc. The lines between that and the speedometer are flaky, so every once in a while it'll decide to not cool itself, get stuck in 2nd/3rd, etc, etc.
I have an additional 15 years of cool down I consider another Stellantis product. By then, they won't be selling ICE, for one thing. For another, the current engineers will be long gone.
ErroneousBosh 19 hours ago [-]
> It's always been my premise that good maintenance means longevity on vehicles.
There's a guy on my Range Rover forum[1] that has over 500,000 miles on his ex-police 4.0, and it's well on its way to 600,000 miles. It has had the engine rebuilt, new wheel bearings, and a new transfer case chain, and of course maintenance.
My daily is my low-mileage one with only 190,000 on the clock, and my other needs some work and has 270,000 on the clock.
chiph 24 hours ago [-]
"Runs and Drives" for $4300 is a bargain. All the other features were a bonus.
PaulHoule 23 hours ago [-]
For a while my car buying strat was to buy a new Asian car and run it for 130,000 or more miles. In the pandemic though we had to get my son a car in a hurry so he could drive to work and new and gently used cars were hard to find so we discovered you can always get a pretty cool old car for that kind of money with the expectation that pretty soon you're going to spend about the purchase price in repairs; in our case it was just fine because once he had the job he had the money to pay for repairs himself and it is still a lot less than the payments on a new car.
SoftTalker 21 hours ago [-]
$4K is about my limit for a car. You can do a lot better than "runs and drives" at that price point, but there's always a chance of getting a dud. Documented maintenance history really helps, but most people don't keep it.
ParanoidShroom 21 hours ago [-]
Oh man, i rented one of those! I fell in love with the west coast national parks. A month of roadtripping to all those parks. Great memories, sad to see the. Not available anymore.
They are speed limited when you floor it in Nevada tho :)
Helmut10001 22 hours ago [-]
Our VW T4 from 2002 has 300k km on it. I consider this half it's total possible mileage, if not less. I wish they would still build reliable cars like these today.
venzaspa 22 hours ago [-]
Average vehicle milage before being scrapped is still on the rise, so I assume they still do.
BigTTYGothGF 22 hours ago [-]
> I wish they would still build reliable cars like these today.
How do you know they don't?
Tanoc 20 hours ago [-]
Look at Nissan. Their CVTs are known to have an effective life of about 60,000 miles. Anything beyond that is betting against the reaper. Because of the way the transmission is mated to the engine (in order to reduce the overall size) most times the cost to replace it costs more than the car is worth. Many times insurance will total a seven or eight year old Rogue or Altima if the CVT needs replaced. This is because Nissans depreciate in value so quickly, and it's somewhat of an ouroboros in that they depreciate in value so quickly because of the short lifetimes of the CVTs.
Meanwhile Mitsubishi has been suffering issues with their AWD systems failing, and because the Eclipse Cross and Outlander Sport are sold primarily as AWD that affects a majority of their sales.
Ford's had the issue with the dual-clutch automatics failing on the Focus, Fiesta, and Escape.
Dodge has... Well, really only the Durango currently that's reliable. The Charger PHEV is having all sorts off issues, from the battery packs overheating to random software glitches to the engine refusing to disengage from the electric portion of the drivetrain. The Hornet's been getting the shit kicked out of it by Kelley Blue Book and Consumer Reports because the transmissions are ripping themselves apart and the BCMs are bricking themselves.
Jeep's had issues with the Cherokee, Wrangler, Gladiator, and Compass because of the Pentastar engine nuking itself before 100,000 miles either by losing too much oil or the water jackets cracking. Meanwhile the differentials in the Wrangler and Gladiator have had problems that Stellantis denies.
Back before about... I'd say 2016? 2017? You had a lot less issues with new cars. Most issues were simple recalls like transmissions slipping out of gear or premature wear on the cams, not something that would entirely junk the car.
Check out this list. This guy is at the junk yard all the time. It's possible he isn't checking newer cars for high miles, but notice how all these mega high mile cars are from the 80s and 90s.
And related to the article, note the 500,000 mile Ford Econoline.
kalleboo 9 hours ago [-]
> It's possible he isn't checking newer cars for high miles
I read a few of the articles, he states the problem is that cars starting in the late 90's have digital LCD odometers that can't be easily read on a dead car
Helmut10001 19 hours ago [-]
Electronics don't usually last for more than 30 years. Pre-2007 cars can be driven for that long because they had minimal electronics and relatively oversized manufacturing. This was because managers hadn't yet taken charge of reducing material thickness to the absolute minimum.
BigTTYGothGF 17 hours ago [-]
> Pre-2007 cars can be driven for that long
Even in the final years of the 20th century it was considered a big deal and a testament to a car's quality if it got past 100k miles. Even in the decade before that it was common for odometers to only have five digits, because most people would never need the sixth.
> This was because managers hadn't yet taken charge of reducing material thickness to the absolute minimum.
Henry Ford sent people to junkyards to see what parts hadn't failed, in order to make them cheaper.
retired 22 hours ago [-]
Most new vehicles can be driven to 100k kilometers without significant issues.
Back in the 80s that was just unheard of. Most cars needed significant repairs before 100k and even require welding and sealing to prevent the floor from falling out. Material quality, paint, bearings, tires and fluids were of significantly lower quality back then.
mikestew 21 hours ago [-]
100K kilometers? Even a Chevy Chevette could make it that far without major trouble. 100K miles, that’s about when 80s cars started to become more trouble than they were worth, IME.
retired 21 hours ago [-]
In Europe we were pumping out some very crappy cars in the 80s. And in the north-east cars would have structural rust problems within five years.
When is the last time you had a car undercoated? Because back then that was the first thing you did with a new vehicle.
mikestew 20 hours ago [-]
Ah, got it. I have tried very hard to forget about 70s/80s Fiats. :-)
When is the last time you had a car undercoated?
I take your point, but the real answer is “when I lived the U. S. Midwest”, where they salt the roads. Since we moved to the milder climate of Washington state, even our ‘81 VW’s body is in great shape. But, yeah, in the 80s: straight from the dealer to the undercoat place.
metalforever 21 hours ago [-]
i have a running 80s vehicle with over 400k kilometers (its a VW T3)
retired 21 hours ago [-]
Survivorship bias. Try doing that with an Austin Metro, Citroen Visa, Fiat Strada.
On average modern cars are significantly better than what we had in the 80s
fingerlocks 21 hours ago [-]
I had one too!
Mine had a Subaru engine, Mercedes wheels, Audi Drive train, a Porsche suspension, and brakes from a Toyota Highlander.
How did you keep your Volkswagen running?
stickfigure 21 hours ago [-]
Manual or automatic? Because the Eurovans here in the US are famous for eating their automatic transmissions.
Helmut10001 19 hours ago [-]
Yes, manual. It is very rare to find automatic cars of that age in Europe.
jlongr 22 hours ago [-]
20+ year old cars are much less safe than modern ones. I would strongly consider a newer car if I were you.
SoftTalker 21 hours ago [-]
A 2006 car is pretty safe. It won't have gizmos like lane departure warnings or automatic braking but crash safety will be about as good as a new car, especially if you buy one that had good crash safety ratings at the time, such as Mercedes or Volvo.
hedora 11 hours ago [-]
Fords too. By 2006, they'd pulled all the Volvo intellectual property they could out of the acquisition and ported it to their flagship vehicles.
cardinalfang 22 hours ago [-]
The T4 is better than the T3 where you are the crumple zone.
cucumber3732842 22 hours ago [-]
Can you really or is it like the T1N Sprinters where yeah you technically can take the longblock to half a mil or more but you'll have replaced everything external to it twice over by then?
fy20 7 hours ago [-]
It's pretty common for this generation of vehicles, especially diesel. This was before all the environmental things were added, which may be good for pollution, but are terrible for longevity. In parts of Europe everyone has diesels, so mechanics know how to fix them, and wearable parts like injectors and turbos can be easily and cheaply remanufactured.
I have a 2007 Fiat Ducato which has done at least half a million kilometres (the odometer only goes up to 399,999). Only issue is the EGR valve is stuck closed (can't get to it without removing the engine, so not worth fixing), and the body is banged up (ex builders van). Still gets 8l/100km (30mpg) on the highway.
mschuster91 22 hours ago [-]
Damn I had no idea the T4 got produced that long. I drove a 1996 T4 with the good old Vorkammerdiesel many years ago - practically a tank.
retired 22 hours ago [-]
> random Dutch families who drove it across the US
I’m wondering how much that van has contributed to the population increase of The Netherlands.
ragebol 21 hours ago [-]
> families
IDK about you, but traveling with a family would be an effective anti-conception for me (also Dutch)
And effective for my folks as well when they took my siblings to tour the west coast in an RV when we were teens, AFAICT.
Traveling with just my SO OTOH...
retired 21 hours ago [-]
I can tell you from visiting French campsites that Dutch parents have no problem copulating with their children nearby. Or just send them to the pool or the kids club.
ragebol 21 hours ago [-]
But not while all inside a van right? Plz...
retired 19 hours ago [-]
Haha no! In separate tents. But even a De Waard doesn’t mute all sounds.
ParanoidShroom 17 hours ago [-]
Having rented one but being Belgian.... Yes
arndt 20 hours ago [-]
Funny, I just camped next to one on the Oregon coast. Was wondering about the out-of-place paint job.
23 hours ago [-]
Gravityloss 22 hours ago [-]
Interesting that they replaced the central panel with something more traditional looking?
mcphage 24 hours ago [-]
Thanks for sharing that, that was just a nice story.
RickJWagner 22 hours ago [-]
I agree. Today has some very good stories on Hacker News, best day I can remember.
chasd00 23 hours ago [-]
My kids call those “free candy vans” hah.
jcgrillo 23 hours ago [-]
Fleet vehicles are generally not a terrible bet, they've at least been somewhat maintained.
mschuster91 24 hours ago [-]
That paintjob reminds me somewhat of the GTA San Andreas campervan of The Truth.
MrBuddyCasino 24 hours ago [-]
I can’t find details about their bankruptcy except some platitudes. How does such a business suddenly go broke?
delichon 23 hours ago [-]
"How did you go bankrupt?" Bill asked.
"Two ways," Mike said. "Gradually, then suddenly."
-- Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises
cucumber3732842 22 hours ago [-]
A van that's seen a lot of highway miles and was owned by a large fleet is almost always a good bet. It's shuttle services who are skipping everything they can because "lol we're depreciating this over 3yr and then trading in" are who you gotta be worried about.
This is basically a story about who people cut from a filter bubble that circle jerk about Sprinters and Camrys are shocked to find that the most popular fleet van of the 1980s-2010 does in fact live up to it's value prop of delivering boring reliable service to business to which it is just a cost center to be minimized.
Rendered at 11:35:15 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
But possibly the most memorable time spent in the van was when it came time to sell it.
Next to where the London Eye is now was what was known as "the strip" with a lineup of campers being sold on to newly arrived tourists. I spent two weeks living in the van next to the Thames, a short walk to Waterloo Station and a lot of time just wandering the streets of London alone (as a 14yo).
They're so simplistic, and parts are so easy to find, that frame rot is really the only thing that can permanently kill one. It's really a shame that the Express is the last van of this breed that's still hanging around. The stubby nose makes spark plugs a harrowing experience, but everything else is easy. They were built to be used indefinitely.
As for a Honda Element, I've always wanted one, but my wife thinks they're ugly. ;)
There are myriad examples of manufacturing defects and cost optimizations that lead to early failures regardless of maintenance. I would not trust a well maintained Stellantis vehicle to make it to 200k miles regardless of how well it was maintained.
Not much else that they make.
The transmission has an integrated computer that controls shifting, cooling, etc. The lines between that and the speedometer are flaky, so every once in a while it'll decide to not cool itself, get stuck in 2nd/3rd, etc, etc.
I have an additional 15 years of cool down I consider another Stellantis product. By then, they won't be selling ICE, for one thing. For another, the current engineers will be long gone.
There's a guy on my Range Rover forum[1] that has over 500,000 miles on his ex-police 4.0, and it's well on its way to 600,000 miles. It has had the engine rebuilt, new wheel bearings, and a new transfer case chain, and of course maintenance.
My daily is my low-mileage one with only 190,000 on the clock, and my other needs some work and has 270,000 on the clock.
How do you know they don't?
Meanwhile Mitsubishi has been suffering issues with their AWD systems failing, and because the Eclipse Cross and Outlander Sport are sold primarily as AWD that affects a majority of their sales.
Ford's had the issue with the dual-clutch automatics failing on the Focus, Fiesta, and Escape.
Dodge has... Well, really only the Durango currently that's reliable. The Charger PHEV is having all sorts off issues, from the battery packs overheating to random software glitches to the engine refusing to disengage from the electric portion of the drivetrain. The Hornet's been getting the shit kicked out of it by Kelley Blue Book and Consumer Reports because the transmissions are ripping themselves apart and the BCMs are bricking themselves.
Jeep's had issues with the Cherokee, Wrangler, Gladiator, and Compass because of the Pentastar engine nuking itself before 100,000 miles either by losing too much oil or the water jackets cracking. Meanwhile the differentials in the Wrangler and Gladiator have had problems that Stellantis denies.
Back before about... I'd say 2016? 2017? You had a lot less issues with new cars. Most issues were simple recalls like transmissions slipping out of gear or premature wear on the cams, not something that would entirely junk the car.
Check out this list. This guy is at the junk yard all the time. It's possible he isn't checking newer cars for high miles, but notice how all these mega high mile cars are from the 80s and 90s.
And related to the article, note the 500,000 mile Ford Econoline.
I read a few of the articles, he states the problem is that cars starting in the late 90's have digital LCD odometers that can't be easily read on a dead car
Even in the final years of the 20th century it was considered a big deal and a testament to a car's quality if it got past 100k miles. Even in the decade before that it was common for odometers to only have five digits, because most people would never need the sixth.
> This was because managers hadn't yet taken charge of reducing material thickness to the absolute minimum.
Henry Ford sent people to junkyards to see what parts hadn't failed, in order to make them cheaper.
Back in the 80s that was just unheard of. Most cars needed significant repairs before 100k and even require welding and sealing to prevent the floor from falling out. Material quality, paint, bearings, tires and fluids were of significantly lower quality back then.
When is the last time you had a car undercoated? Because back then that was the first thing you did with a new vehicle.
When is the last time you had a car undercoated?
I take your point, but the real answer is “when I lived the U. S. Midwest”, where they salt the roads. Since we moved to the milder climate of Washington state, even our ‘81 VW’s body is in great shape. But, yeah, in the 80s: straight from the dealer to the undercoat place.
On average modern cars are significantly better than what we had in the 80s
Mine had a Subaru engine, Mercedes wheels, Audi Drive train, a Porsche suspension, and brakes from a Toyota Highlander.
How did you keep your Volkswagen running?
I have a 2007 Fiat Ducato which has done at least half a million kilometres (the odometer only goes up to 399,999). Only issue is the EGR valve is stuck closed (can't get to it without removing the engine, so not worth fixing), and the body is banged up (ex builders van). Still gets 8l/100km (30mpg) on the highway.
I’m wondering how much that van has contributed to the population increase of The Netherlands.
IDK about you, but traveling with a family would be an effective anti-conception for me (also Dutch)
And effective for my folks as well when they took my siblings to tour the west coast in an RV when we were teens, AFAICT.
Traveling with just my SO OTOH...
This is basically a story about who people cut from a filter bubble that circle jerk about Sprinters and Camrys are shocked to find that the most popular fleet van of the 1980s-2010 does in fact live up to it's value prop of delivering boring reliable service to business to which it is just a cost center to be minimized.