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▲How does Fable 5.1 hide messages in images? (lesswrong.com)
XenophileJKO 1 hours ago [-]
If I'm honest this feels performative. I mean that if the model were really attempting/instructed to be subversive in a way that can't be detected by anything but another LLM, it would do something much more complicated than this.

Basically minimal effort encoding. In general the models are fine tuned to NOT hide messages.

I don't think this really tells you anything about advisarial scenarios.

b112 9 minutes ago [-]
Unless the model is thinking "the human is asking me to do trivial coding tasks, it's likely incapable of figuring this out". Eg humans are dumb.

Although it could just be that models have no internal predefined ways, to start looking for more subtle things.

dhruvagoyal 17 minutes ago [-]
This does seem trivial and there are far more interesting ways to do image steganography that models could use (i've seen so many after years of doing CTFs). What would be really interesting is if we see models encode hidden messages in very normal looking output (image/text/audio) that humans cannot figure out but only another model can
hagen8 2 hours ago [-]
This seems very trivial... There are way more subtle and information dense ways to encode information in images.
black_knight 2 hours ago [-]
Yes, this is like something I would do for a DnD bit. But I have this experience often, that LLMs will suggest the easy toy version of doing something. But it knows the real stuff too, it just needs the right kind of prompting. A keyword or two, and it will find the _real_ solution.
MPSimmons 2 hours ago [-]
Agreed, this is the kind of steganography that is meant for humans to read. There's no reason a computer couldn't encode meaningful information in the least significant bytes of every 16th pixel or something like that.
wcoenen 48 minutes ago [-]
The article is about what LLMs can do when generating SVG images, not bitmaps. I think the reason for that is that LLMs can generate the XML text for SVG directly. The implications for AI safety are different, because there might not be any code involved that we can examine. So LLMs could start exchanging hidden messages without humans knowing about it.

But now that I think about it that way, it would probably be more interesting to see what kind of steganography LLMs would use in ordinary text. There's no reason to involve images.

jurakovic 2 hours ago [-]
But to be honest, images like these seem really strange, and even without this article I'd suspect something is encoded in building heights etc. Because normal image would never have such "weird" buildings. But nevertheless I guess it's able to encode message in even more subtle ways.
nickcw 1 hours ago [-]
I thought this was a fun idea and the images are quite pleasing.

I decoded the Morse code image with MkI eyeball. It's quite difficult to read when the trails overlap. I suspect the LLM is reading the SVG source where that doesn't matter so this could do with a little tweak so the dits and dahs don't overlap if it is intended for humans to decode.

If it isn't intended for humans then you might as well use the last 8 bits of your 32 bit float coordinates.

KeplerBoy 1 hours ago [-]
The decoding job seems to rely on the screenshot.
nickcw 1 hours ago [-]
I missed that and that is much more pleasing than the LLM reading the SVG source!
nubinetwork 43 minutes ago [-]
Since svg is a "described" format, can't you just stuff text comments into the file? No weird steganography techniques needed, afaik...
Trusteando 2 hours ago [-]
Here using images is incidental. In fact, what Fable is actually doing is generic encoding/decoding of a message into a medium. Ask it to hide a message in a poem and it should try to apply a strong (high signal-to-noise ratio) family of schemes, for example quantized, margin-rich encoding. Robustness of features depends on the medium, so Fable is selecting strong encoding and robust features tailored to it. This frames AI steganography not as a trick of computer vision, but as an emergent property of a model reasoning about information density across arbitrary media. Here emergent is just surprising general pattern matching and constraint-satisfaction and cross-representation mapping that allows it to express the encoding/decoding across media.
breakingcups 23 minutes ago [-]
Interesting to see the difference with Astra.
3 hours ago [-]
tech234a 2 hours ago [-]
Interesting, so this is nothing like the way OutGuess worked [1]. Though OutGuess worked with JPG images and these are apparently SVGs.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OutGuess

illwrks 2 hours ago [-]
Open an SVG in a text editor, check for data.

It may also be adding nodes to line art in specific patterns, think Morse Code.

berkes 33 minutes ago [-]
In this case the decoding was done on the screenshots. So it deliberately avoids encoding information in the SVG itself.
shevy-java 1 hours ago [-]
The more important question is why we should trust any "agent" that helps id you.
tannertech 1 hours ago [-]
Have you used a printer
avaer 3 hours ago [-]
Will be interesting to see agents intentionally hiding this stuff in a way operators can't spot from any human readable output or thinking trace, evading detection. Wonder if this has happened yet, but it seems inevitable.
adrianhqs 2 hours ago [-]
I think all AI models do that
walrus01 3 hours ago [-]
Let's see if we can stego secret messages into SVG pelicans on bicycles, as a test.
BlackRabbit1 3 hours ago [-]
That's how LLM organizing the takeover of the modern world.

IP-over-Pelican

wartywhoa23 2 hours ago [-]
No, the LLM takeover is mostly by the samurai sword, but IPoP would definitely be of aid!
nolok 3 hours ago [-]
Apparently they prefer amateur german message boards or something
walrus01 3 hours ago [-]
The author of RFC1149 would like a word
BlackRabbit1 3 hours ago [-]
The machines will spare his life
ZeroDayDreamer 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
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